Bernie Sanders on Oligarchy, AI, and Fighting for the Working Class

Bernie Sanders on Oligarchy, AI, and Fighting for the Working Class

Based on a transcript from This Past Weekend featuring Senator Bernie Sanders.

Executive Summary

Senator Bernie Sanders returns to Theo Von’s podcast for a wide-ranging conversation that covers the state of American healthcare, extreme wealth concentration, the dangers of AI and robotics, foreign policy concerns, and immigration. Sanders argues that the United States is drifting toward oligarchy, with billionaires wielding disproportionate political and economic power. Yet he remains cautiously optimistic, pointing to grassroots victories and the potential for ordinary people to reclaim their democracy through collective action.

Key insights from this conversation:

  • The U.S. spends roughly $15,000 per person on healthcare annually, double that of any other major nation, while 85 million remain uninsured or underinsured
  • Wealth inequality has reached historic levels, with the top 1% owning more than the bottom 93%
  • AI and robotics could eliminate tens of millions of jobs in the coming decade, and Congress is unprepared
  • Grassroots campaigns like Zohran Mamdani’s mayoral victory in New York City demonstrate that people-powered politics can overcome establishment money
  • Campaign finance reform and overturning Citizens United remain central to restoring democratic governance

The Nurses’ Strike and a Broken Healthcare System

Sanders opens the conversation fresh from joining nurses on the picket line at Mount Sinai hospital in New York City, alongside new Mayor Zohran Mamdani. He describes nurses as the backbone of the healthcare system, present from birth to death and at every moment in between, yet consistently understaffed and under-supported.

The nurses were striking not primarily for higher wages but for safe patient-to-nurse ratios. Sanders notes that nurses have come to his office in tears, not over pay, but because they physically cannot do the work they were trained for when forced to cover too many patients. Meanwhile, hospital CEOs collect compensation packages running into the tens of millions of dollars.

Sanders frames this as a symptom of a fundamentally broken system. The U.S. spends approximately $15,000 per person on healthcare, roughly double what other major countries spend, yet delivers worse outcomes. An estimated 50,000 to 60,000 Americans die unnecessarily each year simply because they cannot get to a doctor in time.

“Is health care a human right? Should everybody, regardless of income, get health care?”

His proposed solution remains Medicare for All, expanded over four years to cover every person without out-of-pocket expenses, which he argues could be accomplished without spending more than is currently spent.

Wealth Inequality and the Oligarchy Problem

Sanders presents stark figures on American inequality: 60% of Americans live paycheck to paycheck, the top 1% owns more wealth than the bottom 93%, and a single individual, Elon Musk, owns more wealth than the bottom 52% of American households.

Theo Von raises the counterargument that billionaires create jobs and economic environments that benefit others. Sanders acknowledges the point but distinguishes between earning money through innovation and hoarding hundreds of billions while people struggle to afford food and healthcare. His position is not against entrepreneurship but against concentration of wealth so extreme that it distorts the entire political and economic system.

Sanders describes his anti-oligarchy tour across 24 states with over 300,000 attendees, including visits to deeply conservative areas where the message still resonated. He argues that opposition to a handful of people wielding enormous power over both the economy and politics transcends traditional party lines.

Campaign Finance and Citizens United

When Theo asks why the healthcare system never improves despite near-universal agreement that it is broken, Sanders points to a corrupt campaign finance system. Insurance companies, pharmaceutical companies, and other moneyed interests spend enormous sums to defeat candidates who threaten their profits.

He highlights Citizens United, the Supreme Court decision that effectively allowed billionaires to spend unlimited amounts influencing elections under the banner of free speech. Sanders notes that this is not a partisan issue: billionaires on both sides of the aisle exploit the system, though he views the current alignment with Republican leadership as particularly stark, citing Elon Musk’s reported $270 million expenditure to help elect Donald Trump.

Both Sanders and Theo Von agree that ordinary Americans increasingly feel that neither party works for them, a sentiment Sanders sees as both legitimate and dangerous if it leads to disengagement rather than action.

AI, Robotics, and the Future of Work

Sanders has become deeply concerned about AI and robotics over the past six months, viewing it as a potentially monumental disruption for which the country is entirely unprepared. He raises several dimensions of the issue.

First, data centers are consuming scarce water and electricity resources in communities across the country, providing few long-term jobs after construction is complete.

Second, and more fundamentally, the wealthiest individuals on earth are pouring hundreds of billions into AI development. Sanders cites Musk’s own statement that AI and robots will eventually replace all jobs, and similar predictions from other tech leaders about half of entry-level positions disappearing.

Sanders questions who benefits from this revolution. If AI doubles worker productivity, does the worker get to work half as many hours at the same pay, or does the company simply pocket the difference? He has proposed a moratorium on data centers to force a pause and allow society to reckon with these questions.

The conversation also touches on existential risks: AI systems potentially communicating in languages humans cannot understand, the psychological effects of people seeking emotional companionship from AI rather than other humans, the implications for warfare when leaders can send robots instead of soldiers, and deepfakes undermining electoral integrity.

“Who is AI and robotics going to work for? Does it work to improve human life? Or does it work to make the billionaires even richer?”

Grassroots Hope: From Burlington to New York City

Despite the grim picture, Sanders finds reasons for optimism in grassroots politics. He points to Zohran Mamdani’s rise from 1% in the polls to winning the New York City mayoral race, powered by 90,000 volunteers knocking on doors rather than billionaire donors. Sanders sees this as proof that people-powered campaigns can defeat entrenched establishment money.

Sanders reflects on his own history: winning the mayorship of Burlington, Vermont by just 10 votes decades ago, defeating a Democratic incumbent as an independent. He draws a line from that experience through Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, Ro Khanna, Pramila Jayapal, and others working to transform the Democratic Party into one that genuinely represents working people.

When Theo asks about starting a third party, Sanders acknowledges he has thought about it for decades but explains the structural barriers: ballot access requirements, enormous signature-gathering costs, and a two-party system designed to exclude newcomers. His current strategy is to transform the Democratic Party from within, returning it to its Franklin Roosevelt and Harry Truman roots as the party of the American working class.

Foreign Policy: Gaza, Saudi Arabia, and American Values

Sanders discusses the Gaza conflict with directness. He acknowledges October 7th as a genuine atrocity by Hamas but argues that Israel’s response constituted a war against the entire Palestinian population: over 70,000 killed, more than 160,000 injured, humanitarian aid blocked, and virtually every medical facility and school bombed.

He criticizes both the Biden and Trump administrations for continuing to fund what he considers a war criminal in Netanyahu, and credits young Americans across the political spectrum for shifting public opinion on the issue.

The conversation extends to Saudi Arabia, where Sanders questions why the U.S. rolls out the red carpet for a leader whom American intelligence agencies have linked to the murder of journalist Jamal Khashoggi. He ties this to a broader pattern of Trump aligning with authoritarian leaders while antagonizing democratic allies in Europe.

Immigration: Borders, Reform, and ICE

Sanders states his position clearly: the U.S. needs strong borders and an orderly immigration process. He acknowledges that border security was inadequate. At the same time, he argues that the vast majority of the 10 to 14 million undocumented people in the country work hard, obey the law, and kept the economy running during COVID.

His proposed approach is comprehensive immigration reform with a path to citizenship for undocumented residents who have been law-abiding and contributing members of society. He contrasts this with what he sees as Trump’s use of ICE as a domestic military force for intimidation purposes, going far beyond targeting criminals to arresting ordinary people and even American citizens.

Fraud, Accountability, and Context

When Theo raises the Minnesota nutrition fraud case, Sanders condemns it unequivocally, calling theft from hungry children about as bad as it gets. But he pushes back against using individual fraud cases to discredit all government programs. He notes that every major defense contractor has been charged with fraud, insurance companies routinely deny legitimate claims, and pharmaceutical companies have lied for decades, from tobacco to opioids to climate change.

His argument is about proportion: Social Security delivers 99-plus percent of checks to people who need them. In a country of 340 million people, fraud exists everywhere, in government and the private sector alike, and must be fought, but should be understood in context rather than used to justify dismantling programs that serve millions.

Key Takeaways

  1. Healthcare as a right: The U.S. pays double what other nations pay for worse outcomes; Medicare for All could fix this without additional spending
  2. Oligarchy is the core problem: A handful of billionaires wield disproportionate political and economic power through a corrupt campaign finance system
  3. AI demands urgent attention: Congress is unprepared for a technological revolution that could eliminate tens of millions of jobs
  4. Grassroots politics works: People-powered campaigns can overcome establishment money, as demonstrated in New York City
  5. Common ground exists: Americans across the political spectrum share basic values about democracy, fairness, and opportunity
  6. Foreign policy reflects values: Alignment with authoritarian leaders and war criminals undermines America’s democratic credibility
  7. Immigration needs reform, not militarization: Strong borders and a path to citizenship are not mutually exclusive
  8. Fraud must be fought in context: Individual cases should not be used to discredit programs that serve millions
  9. Collective action is the answer: When people organize and stand together, they have the power to change the system
  10. Hope requires engagement: The biggest threat is not the opposition but the belief that nothing can change

Senator Bernie Sanders represents Vermont in the United States Senate. Follow his work at berniesanders.com.